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Interview with Editor Julie Klein

This month, I had the pleasure of interviewing Julie Klein, freelance editor extraordinaire. Julie and I met in 2015 through the Northwest Editors Guild when I was searching for an editor for my middle-grade novel, THE CONTENDERS. I emailed three editors that I found through the guild and received sample edits and estimates from two out of three (the third did not do sample edits). Julie’s meticulous sample edit of four pages (1,000 words) of my manuscript blew me away! Her fees were on par with my budget so I hired her right off. Not only did she help me take my novel to a higher level, she also laid out the paperback for print-on-demand publication. In 2018, I hired Julie again—this time to line-edit my suspense novel—and again, she helped me make my manuscript more clear and engaging. It’s my distinct pleasure to share with you how Julie got started in editing, where her eagle-eyed skills come from, and what she recommends to writers looking for editorial help.

Peg: When and how did you know you wanted to be an editor?

Julie: It was a question of necessity. Shortly after the 2008 Great Recession began, there were threats of budget cutbacks at the federal agency where I worked. No one knew who might be laid off, so I started looking around at what else I could do that might help me land on my feet if I suddenly became unemployed.

Back before everyone had their own computer, I ran a typing and word processing service. Part of my process was to edit as I worked; I have a knack for grammar, punctuation, and spelling, so it was a value-added kind of thing. It seemed like something I could build on, a natural transition from “correcting” to full-on editing.

What I didn’t realize at the time was that the days of simply hanging out a shingle were gone. I needed credentials! So I enrolled in the University of Washington Certificate in Editing program. I quickly learned that I didn’t know what I didn’t know. Editing is so much more than correcting, and there are so many aspects to the field. I really had no idea.

P: When was the first time you edited a piece of writing that wasn’t your own? What was it like?

J: The last quarter of the certificate program included a practicum. Part of the process was learning how to engage with a real person for whom you are doing the work. My day job at the time was working in a probation office. An officer I worked with, whom I knew had written papers on leadership, agreed to let me edit one of her pieces. Bless her heart! She had no idea what she was in for.

I worked on that piece extensively, marking it up with Track Changes in Microsoft Word. It was a good paper and I thought I was making it better by cleaning up repetitions, making her sentences more concise, the whole kit and kaboodle. The next day, she walked into my office and said, “I just wanted to see if you had maybe cut off your arm, because you bled all over my paper!”

It was quite a lesson in managing expectations and being judicious in offering feedback. Every writer pours their heart and soul into their work, and they want to hear what’s good before they will listen to how it can be better.

P: That’s a great story and it’s so true. Every writer wants to hear what’s good before they hear what needs to change. How did you balance being a freelance editor while working full time?

J: Thankfully, I never did get laid off from my job! I started freelancing as soon as I finished the certificate program, and for six years, edited part time in the evenings and weekends. I was learning so much, getting little jobs here and there, even landing some manuscripts—one of which was THE CONTENDERS! It’s still one of the projects I’m most proud of, too. The other big win was making a connection with a lesbian author who writes prolifically. My first few projects with her were through a small press, but when she left to strike out on her own, she took me with her. I’ve worked on a total of five books of hers. Last summer I transitioned to being a full-time editor.

P: I’m so happy to know that my novel was one of your favorite projects. Thanks for that, Julie! What jobs or experiences helped you the most with becoming an editor?

J: It seems every job I’ve ever had has involved editing and writing in some way. First was the typing and word processing service. Years later, I ran a small business with over 40 employees. Because it was a mobile service in five different cities, employee meetings were infrequent. So I wrote a monthly newsletter to pass along news of the company, policy changes, employee recognition. I also wrote and edited our office procedures manual. Later, when I worked in the probation office, I developed a reputation as the person to go to for grammar, punctuation, and spelling, even more so after I completed the certificate program.

P: What kind of writing do you most enjoy editing?

J: Anything with a solid premise, fiction or nonfiction. I enjoy helping writers strengthen their voice and clarify their thoughts.

P: You offer different kinds of editing for different stages of the writing process: manuscript evaluation, line editing, copy editing, proofreading. How can a writer discover which stage their manuscript is at and how can they best choose the type of editing they most need?

J: Great question! Someone who has written a manuscript in isolation—meaning no feedback other than from family members, no interaction with a writers’ group, no studying of craft—is probably not ready for “just proofreading.” I like to schedule a 20- to 30-minute conversation with the writer to find out more about their story and their process. If they are presenting something right out of the box, I’ll often recommend a manuscript evaluation to provide feedback about plot, character development, pacing, craft issues, and so on. Some writers may need more in-depth developmental help or a writing coach. I also often suggest reading more books on storytelling and writing craft (see Additional Assets on my website).

Once the writer has worked through the manuscript, the next step is content or line editing. This phase of editing addresses syntax, transitions, wordiness, redundancy, and word choice. Depending on the skill level of the writer, a lighter copyedit may suffice. At this point, I’ll ask to see the manuscript and provide a sample edit before I make a proposal.

P: What is the biggest mistake most writers make?

J: The biggest mistake a writer makes is being in too much of a hurry.

It’s a heady experience to finish a manuscript! Many writers want to believe that their story is perfect just as it is, ready for an agent or self-publishing, but it’s a rare person who spills gold from their pen in the first draft. A writer who puts out a first draft is heading for heartache, either in the form of rejection letters or responses from readers, who can be brutal in their criticism.

Getting a book ready to send out in the world is a process, as you know. At the ground level, I recommend working with critique partners so you can develop the craft of writing. As you learn craft and develop your writing skills, apply what you’ve learned as you revise your manuscript.

Revise it again. And again. And again, until you can’t look at it anymore. Then put it away for a while and work on something else. When you’ve had a break, pick it up again. Look at it with fresh eyes. Keep revising and rewriting. This stage of the process would be a good time to read and study Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Browne and Dave King.

After you’ve worked through several drafts, look for at least three beta readers. Some people offer beta reading for free; others charge. Keep in mind that you may be asked to read for them in return.

So far your main investment has been time: time spent writing and revising, time spent working with your critique group, time spent finding beta readers and waiting for their feedback. Now it’s time to find a professional editor.

P: Looking back, what’s the biggest mistake or lesson you learned in your early years of editing?

J: Every project teaches me something, but the first lesson—editing the officer’s paper—was probably the most valuable.

P: What kinds of books do you like to read for pleasure?

J: It might be easier to say what I don’t read! I tend most toward literary fiction, historical fiction, mysteries, history, biographies, memoirs—anything that’s well written and keeps me engaged. Most recently I read Educated by Tara Westover. Now, I’m reading Tuesday’s Gone by Nicci French.

P: You’re currently working on a book based on your mother’s memories of her time in England. Can you tell us more about it?

J: I used to love hearing my mother tell stories about living in England. Some years ago, when my mother was still living, I asked her to write them down for me. She did, I typed them up, boxed up her writing and photos after she passed, and didn’t think about it again until I got settled into my new home in Albuquerque.

Now, I’m not the kind of person who can look at a blank canvas and see what needs to be painted on it. In other words, I don’t really know how to make up a story. But I knew I had my mother’s manuscript, and I thought I might be able to do something with it. It helped that she had an interesting life: she was born in England right at the end of World War I, she lived through the Depression and World War II, and she married five times in an age when women just didn’t do that.

During a 6-week course in writing memoir and memoir-based fiction, I wrote a few pieces based loosely on her stories, and now I’m working on a short story combining those pieces that I plan to submit for a writing contest.

P: That’s great that you’re putting your mother’s stories into a short story. I can’t wait to read it someday. What’s it like being the writer instead of the editor?

J: Being a writer instead of an editor is giving me an entirely new perspective. I’m going through the process that my clients go through: writing, getting feedback, rewriting, submitting, and probably getting rejected. If I don’t make the cut for the contest, that will give me even more empathy for the writer’s process—which I hope will make me a better editor.

P: I know it will. Thank you so much, Julie, for taking the time to answer my questions, and for being open and honest with your experiences as an editor. I appreciate all your great tips and advice. Looking forward to working with you again in the future!

Julie Klein offers a range of editorial services: manuscript evaluation, substantive editing, content and line editing, copyediting, proofreading, and formatting for submission to agents or publishers. Whether you write fiction, memoir, creative nonfiction, or family history, you deserve to work with a skilled and professional editor who understands what you need on your journey to publication. To learn more about Julie and her fantastic services, visit her site and follow her on Facebook and LinkedIn.

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Interview with Author Sandra Evans

This month, I had the pleasure of interviewing Sandra Evans, author of the delightful middle-grade novel, THIS IS NOT A WEREWOLF STORY. Sandy and I met through our mutual friend, the writer Tamiko Nimura, who knew we both wrote middle-grade novels and thought we might hit it off. She was right. The first time I met Sandy at Corina Bakery in Tacoma, Washington, we talked for hours like we’d known each other for years. She is a kind soul, a kindred spirit, and a talented and tenacious writer. It’s my distinct pleasure to share with you how Sandy got to where she is today, and what keeps her motivated after more than thirty years of writing.

Peg: When did you first start doing creative writing and what inspired you to do it?

Sandra: I started writing poetry when I was in middle school. I wasn’t a big talker and I was pretty shy. I think it was a way for me to process my feelings at a time when I didn’t have anyone to tell them to and I wouldn’t have known how to if I had.

P: How and when did you know you wanted to be a novelist?

S: I can’t think of a time in my life when I didn’t want to be a writer. From the youngest age, I’m sure. My parents love books. They read to me all the time. Creating one has always seemed like the greatest good.

P: In addition to writing, you’re a mom, and you teach French at a high school. How do you balance writing, working, and home life?

S: I don’t. It’s pretty messy and sometimes a little depressing. Sometimes I feel like I fight for every minute that I take to write—I’m fighting myself as much as everyone else.

This year I’ve gotten in a rhythm of dropping my son off for school and then heading to the coffee shop for an hour before I go to school myself. It’s tempting to go straight to work instead. Students always need more time—that’s an abyss. You’ll never climb out of it. There’s always another stack of papers to correct. There’s always a handful of kids that make you lose sleep. My classroom always needs cleaning. I could spend an hour a day making photocopies, another hour writing emails to parents, and another harassing counselors and admins about kids that are freefalling through the cracks.

So I try not to be a perfectionist. In theory I’m part time and so I try to work within the six hours a day I get paid for.

On the weekend I try to get in at least three or four hours at a time. That way I can get my head around the whole story.

I work out at least four times a week now that I’m at a gym that has classes on a near hourly basis. It gives me headspace to think about scenes and gets rid of all the stress of my work day. Also, there’s something about learning how to push through discomfort physically that has really helped me deal with the frustration that sometimes come with writing, and the eternal and never-ending self-doubt.

My house and garden take the biggest hit. I try not to dwell on it.

A friend recently described me as very disciplined. It kind of startled me. I don’t think of myself that way, but maybe it’s true. I try not to be rigid. I just know that if I want to do something, I’m the only one who can make that happen. Nobody else can do it for me, and nobody is really going to go out of their way to make it easy for me.

P: Thanks for being so honest. It’s refreshing to hear you admit that you don’t balance it all—that it can get messy and a little depressing. What inspired you to write THIS IS NOT A WEREWOLF STORY?

S: My son, for sure. I wanted to write a book for kids like him—who like science, and myths, and animals. I wanted to make a story that would give kids some of the emotional vocabulary that we don’t always learn. I think the sooner we can describe how we feel, the sooner we can figure out who we are and what we want and what we need.

P: Couldn’t agree more. How did you come up with the title?

S: It was originally titled A Secret You Must Keep. An agent who had requested the first 50 pages in response to my query wrote back with a little note saying, I’m not looking for werewolf stories. Or something along those lines. I tossed the returned pages onto my dining room table and said out loud to the empty room, Didn’t she even read it? This is not a werewolf story! And then I realized that was the perfect title since it would tell future agents that there might be a whiff of werewolf within these pages.

P: I read on Query Tracker’s interview with you that you’d been writing books for twenty years before you sold THIS IS NOT A WEREWOLF STORY to Simon & Schuster. How did you stay motivated all those years?

S: At a certain point I decided that whether or not I could ever sell a novel, I would always be writing one. The time I spend writing is like exercising or eating right or traveling or continuing education—it’s part of being happy and healthy. As a parent, I think it’s a good attitude and behavior to model—creative expression is an end in and of itself.

P: I love that. Creative expression is an end in and of itself. What tips do you have for debut authors trying to find an agent?

S: Don’t worry about doing extra research in order to personalize your query letters. That never worked for me, and I think trying to make some kind of emotional connection actually creates one on your part but not necessarily theirs! So, you lose time and you get too invested. I found two agents, for two different novels, through QueryTracker, without personalizing the query letters to either. I mean, obviously, use their name! And if you are truly contacting them because you love authors they represent, then include that. But don’t spend an hour or two combing through their list. Don’t force anything ever. Be honest.

Don’t query too soon—the novel should be the best you know how to make it. But don’t wait forever either. A lot of agents aren’t looking for perfection—they’re looking for a spark, a voice, a hook that makes them light up a little.

Query in small batches—five to ten at a time, one day a week. It’s a little soul crushing—the burst of hope that follows sending a query and then the silence. If after a few weeks you’ve gotten a few nibbles (as in, requests for partial or full manuscripts), then have faith in what you’re doing. If you’re getting nothing, then pull back and revise your pitch. Also, start working on a new story as soon as the querying begins.

P: This is great advice. I wish I had known to do small batches one day a week when I started querying. You grew up on U.S. Navy bases from Florida to Hawaii. Did growing up in lots of different places influence your writing?

S: Yes. It made me very shy, and in turn, that made me a huge reader as a kid. In middle school—the loneliest time—my mom would take me to the library every two weeks and hand me two grocery sacks to fill with books. Everyone does need friends but, in the meantime, books will do.

Most of my life, I’ve always felt slightly out of the loop, slightly out of step. I always thought I felt like an outsider because of moving so much and always being the new kid. As I get older though, I see that most of us feel that way at least some of the time. It’s just part of being human. I do think identifying yourself as an outsider helps in writing middle-grade fiction. It’s an age that is practically defined by the feeling of being overlooked, awkward, and excluded. Well, it was for me anyway!

P: I can relate to that. It’s probably why I love reading and writing middle-grade novels. What are you currently working on?

S: Agh. That question always makes me feel like Charlie Brown when Lucy swipes the football away. I knew it was coming and I’m never ready. Here goes.

I am finishing up a second draft of a side-quel to THIS IS NOT A WEREWOLF STORY. It follows Mary Anne during the summer that Raul has disappeared. On her last day of school before summer, Mary Anne unwittingly unleashes something—and someone—entirely unexpected in White Deer Woods. The magic follows her when she is sent to stay with Dean Swift’s friends in Paris, the last of the Lusignan dynasty. In their marvelous Parisian hôtel particulier, Mary Anne stumbles on secret after secret, until finally she comes to understand her own role in the mystery.

P: I’d buy that book in a hot second. Is there anything else you’re working on?

S: I have a lot of side projects—a couple romance/mysteries, a couple adaptations of medieval epics, a rambling coming of age novel about waitressing in Seattle in the 90’s.  Eventually I’ll have time to work through each. Right?

P: Right! Thank you so much, Sandy, for taking the time to answer my questions, and for being so open, honest, and encouraging. I loved THIS IS NOT A WEREWOLF STORY and highly recommend it to anyone who likes animals, misfits, and magic (a fantastic combination). I wish you all the best with your current projects and eagerly await the release of your next novel.

Sandra Evans is a writer and high school teacher from the Pacific Northwest. Her middle-grade novel, THIS IS NOT A WEREWOLF STORY (Simon & Schuster, 2016), was inspired by her favorite 12th century French tale, Bisclavret, by Marie de France. Sandra holds a Ph.D. in French Literature from the University of Washington. Over the years, she has taught courses on medieval literature as well as French language and culture at the University of Washington, the University of Puget Sound, and the Université de Paul Valéry in Montpellier, France. She shares her free time with her husband, son, and her dog Bingo—walking on the beach, playing tennis, going to the YMCA, hanging out in bookstores, playing cards in coffee shops, and wandering through museums. To learn more about Sandra, visit her site, follow her on Twitter and Facebook, and check out her marvelous book.